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Saturday January 12th 2002, Author: Sian Cowen, Location: United Kingdom
From Gregory Scott, Kingston Canada
What do we think of Volvo's International Jury? If Grant Dalton has any real plans to 'throw his mother in law off a cliff', this is certainly the time and place to do it. Based on the ridiculous penalty assessed to
Illbruck on leg one for their illegal modifications to the hull, the jury had no option available other than the £500 penalty they assessed to
Tyco. Both are a mockery.
I considered whether any weight should be applied to one rule violation over another. In the end my view is this: we have category one rules that cover the flagrant violation of sportsmanship and the rules of racing aspect of the sport where a material advantage is gained by the yachts' actions and category two rules, that deal with the technical aspect of the sport where, no apparent advantage is gained.
Based on this standard, lIlbruck violated category one and possibly two and Tyco only category two. Most people would likely agree that throwing your mother in-law off a cliff would fit into category one even though doing it you own car may invoke the technical aspect of category two.
From Cox Creek
What do you think of this concept? I built an inclined, full wing rig on my foil tri once - a dismal and embarrassing failure - aside from being too heavy and other mistakes, the inclined rig just didn't develop much power, it seemed to slip the wind - if I was doing it again (full wing design with flaps) I'd have the rig near vertical, maybe incline it 10-15 degrees towards the windward hull.
I know there are numbers of theories about the efficiency of inclined rigs, (Adrian Thompson had a proa that worked - but was still slow, also the recent Dutch 18 foot cat is a success but its canting rig is set not far off vertical) however I am not a believer.
From David Bains
What do you think of this concept? Contrary to what you may think this is not a new concept. I have a balsa model in my attic on the same lines and I'm not the only one. This a one way boat that in theory could achieve very high speeds due to it's almost none existent heeling moment. The trouble is the development time needed in practice. Eventually someone will produce a boat on these lines that can travel on the same tack all day on smooth water and blow away previous records. Till then, heavier more conventional multis that can tack and cross waves will reign supreme.
From Matt Davidge
T-foils - keep them or ban them? Keep the T-foil. The international 14 class has always been about breaking the existing norms, pushing the envelope, and allowing development. The people whom are so adamantly against the t-foil rudder are in the same mind-set as those whom were against the trapeze, then double trapeze, or those against the asymmetric spinnaker.
Today these are the things which help to make 14 sailing the adrenaline rush it is to sail. In the quest for speed, a rudder is relatively inexpensive to replace, and if the new t-foil really does make the 14 all that much faster, then why get in the way of the inevitable.
From Peter Halliwell
Will this sell in the UK?I have sailed a 2.4 for sometime, thinking that the time had come to act my age. I eventually continued with the RS 600 for two reasons, the lack of a spinnaker to give exciting downwind sailing, and the desire to continue to sail planing boats, this despite the fabulous close and tactical racing the 2.4 gives. So this new design looks to fill a slot. However, its an awful lot for a 5m singlehander.
From Kaveath
What do you think of this concept? If it goes 50+ and refines the art - fine but it sure ain`t pretty and I bet I could swim faster around a windward/leeward (and I am a poor swimmer) Dare I suggest the time, money and effort would be better spent on a Little America's Cup Challenge out of U.K. Paul Larson stated that C-Class is "at present, largely dead" but why?
Steve Clarke fulfilled a lifelong dream when Cogito took the Cup from the Aussies - and nobody even tried to get it back!How about a Brit effort? an Aussie or even a French shot. We all know BIG is FAST but its also EXPENSIVE. I wonder how many sailors realise just how fast a C-Class is - Steve beat Stars & Stipes (read 25` v 65`)around a triangle at the `95 Newport Unlimited. Think about how much we learned,at so little cost,in this class and how much we are missing while it lays dormant. So come on,Steve deserves a challenge - forget the Admirals Cup slugs - this is the 21st Century!
From William Dickerson
What is the problem with IAC rigs? Locally, the thin wall of the composite mast structure could have a negative margin of safety for the combination of bending, shear and compression buckling. This combined loading peaks a certain distance away from intermediate support locations, based on the length of the beam panel & the fixity of the support.
Either mechanical testing, using the correct peak loading condition for each panel, or dynamic Nastran analysis can be used (possibly both) to predict the response of the beam and to predict the local loads in the mask structure. It may be that the mast structure (layup) has sufficient longitudinal fibre for the compression loading, but does not have sufficient 45 degree fibres for the shear and buckling loading combination at the crack location. This same scenario applies to the composite spreaders, if the failure location is in the spreaders.
Materials Laboratory analysis of the failure to determine the failure initiation point & the failure mode (ie. shear, buckling, compression?) must be completed first, before the structural analysis can be initiated. Also, testing under sailing conditions with back-to-back strain gaging at the failure locations will give information regarding the actual loading of the structure.
From David Bains
Is Ellen biting off more than she can chew? Possibly, it is an ambitious five year plan. On the other hand she is very young and has bags of energy and enthusiasm, and even more important, endurance. However eventually she will need a rest or else burn out. I am reminded of some of the teenage tennis stars who faded from overwork. Are Kingfisher greedy for glory!
From Iain Ritchie
Is Ellen biting off more than she can chew? Many believed that Ellen was 'biting off more than she could chew' in the Vendee globe, but she prevailed and over came the critics, I don't personally believe that Ellen is biting off more than she can chew, as long as there's the right backing and the right team, anything is possible.
From Phil Laycock,
What do you think of the Comet Racer concept? You've already said it. Yet another 14ft racing asymmetric dinghy which will be seen in handicap fleets for the next few years and then will probably fade away to be seen only on sailing holidays. Why bother? What is the break even point for these boats. If they sell 100 do they get their money back?
From Ian Smith
What do you think of the Comet Racer concept? Why bother when the RS200 has already got this area of the market well under control with a well established circuit and over 600 boats already in use, the second hand prices are now also reasonable. My own club now has over 20 200's and fleet status for 2002 and that's in the North of England!
This new comet product is going to have to be very well built, cheap and easy to sail if it stands a cat's chance in an already crowded market place, and lets face it comet don't exactly have much of a pedigree in this area of the market.
.................................................................................
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I considered whether any weight should be applied to one rule violation over another. In the end my view is this: we have category one rules that cover the flagrant violation of sportsmanship and the rules of racing aspect of the sport where a material advantage is gained by the yachts' actions and category two rules, that deal with the technical aspect of the sport where, no apparent advantage is gained.
Based on this standard, lIlbruck violated category one and possibly two and Tyco only category two. Most people would likely agree that throwing your mother in-law off a cliff would fit into category one even though doing it you own car may invoke the technical aspect of category two.
From Cox Creek
What do you think of this concept? I built an inclined, full wing rig on my foil tri once - a dismal and embarrassing failure - aside from being too heavy and other mistakes, the inclined rig just didn't develop much power, it seemed to slip the wind - if I was doing it again (full wing design with flaps) I'd have the rig near vertical, maybe incline it 10-15 degrees towards the windward hull.
I know there are numbers of theories about the efficiency of inclined rigs, (Adrian Thompson had a proa that worked - but was still slow, also the recent Dutch 18 foot cat is a success but its canting rig is set not far off vertical) however I am not a believer.
From David Bains
What do you think of this concept? Contrary to what you may think this is not a new concept. I have a balsa model in my attic on the same lines and I'm not the only one. This a one way boat that in theory could achieve very high speeds due to it's almost none existent heeling moment. The trouble is the development time needed in practice. Eventually someone will produce a boat on these lines that can travel on the same tack all day on smooth water and blow away previous records. Till then, heavier more conventional multis that can tack and cross waves will reign supreme.
From Matt Davidge
T-foils - keep them or ban them? Keep the T-foil. The international 14 class has always been about breaking the existing norms, pushing the envelope, and allowing development. The people whom are so adamantly against the t-foil rudder are in the same mind-set as those whom were against the trapeze, then double trapeze, or those against the asymmetric spinnaker.
Today these are the things which help to make 14 sailing the adrenaline rush it is to sail. In the quest for speed, a rudder is relatively inexpensive to replace, and if the new t-foil really does make the 14 all that much faster, then why get in the way of the inevitable.
From Peter Halliwell
Will this sell in the UK?I have sailed a 2.4 for sometime, thinking that the time had come to act my age. I eventually continued with the RS 600 for two reasons, the lack of a spinnaker to give exciting downwind sailing, and the desire to continue to sail planing boats, this despite the fabulous close and tactical racing the 2.4 gives. So this new design looks to fill a slot. However, its an awful lot for a 5m singlehander.
From Kaveath
What do you think of this concept? If it goes 50+ and refines the art - fine but it sure ain`t pretty and I bet I could swim faster around a windward/leeward (and I am a poor swimmer) Dare I suggest the time, money and effort would be better spent on a Little America's Cup Challenge out of U.K. Paul Larson stated that C-Class is "at present, largely dead" but why?
Steve Clarke fulfilled a lifelong dream when Cogito took the Cup from the Aussies - and nobody even tried to get it back!How about a Brit effort? an Aussie or even a French shot. We all know BIG is FAST but its also EXPENSIVE. I wonder how many sailors realise just how fast a C-Class is - Steve beat Stars & Stipes (read 25` v 65`)around a triangle at the `95 Newport Unlimited. Think about how much we learned,at so little cost,in this class and how much we are missing while it lays dormant. So come on,Steve deserves a challenge - forget the Admirals Cup slugs - this is the 21st Century!
From William Dickerson
What is the problem with IAC rigs? Locally, the thin wall of the composite mast structure could have a negative margin of safety for the combination of bending, shear and compression buckling. This combined loading peaks a certain distance away from intermediate support locations, based on the length of the beam panel & the fixity of the support.
Either mechanical testing, using the correct peak loading condition for each panel, or dynamic Nastran analysis can be used (possibly both) to predict the response of the beam and to predict the local loads in the mask structure. It may be that the mast structure (layup) has sufficient longitudinal fibre for the compression loading, but does not have sufficient 45 degree fibres for the shear and buckling loading combination at the crack location. This same scenario applies to the composite spreaders, if the failure location is in the spreaders.
Materials Laboratory analysis of the failure to determine the failure initiation point & the failure mode (ie. shear, buckling, compression?) must be completed first, before the structural analysis can be initiated. Also, testing under sailing conditions with back-to-back strain gaging at the failure locations will give information regarding the actual loading of the structure.
From David Bains
Is Ellen biting off more than she can chew? Possibly, it is an ambitious five year plan. On the other hand she is very young and has bags of energy and enthusiasm, and even more important, endurance. However eventually she will need a rest or else burn out. I am reminded of some of the teenage tennis stars who faded from overwork. Are Kingfisher greedy for glory!
From Iain Ritchie
Is Ellen biting off more than she can chew? Many believed that Ellen was 'biting off more than she could chew' in the Vendee globe, but she prevailed and over came the critics, I don't personally believe that Ellen is biting off more than she can chew, as long as there's the right backing and the right team, anything is possible.
From Phil Laycock,
What do you think of the Comet Racer concept? You've already said it. Yet another 14ft racing asymmetric dinghy which will be seen in handicap fleets for the next few years and then will probably fade away to be seen only on sailing holidays. Why bother? What is the break even point for these boats. If they sell 100 do they get their money back?
From Ian Smith
What do you think of the Comet Racer concept? Why bother when the RS200 has already got this area of the market well under control with a well established circuit and over 600 boats already in use, the second hand prices are now also reasonable. My own club now has over 20 200's and fleet status for 2002 and that's in the North of England!
This new comet product is going to have to be very well built, cheap and easy to sail if it stands a cat's chance in an already crowded market place, and lets face it comet don't exactly have much of a pedigree in this area of the market.
.................................................................................
Anyone can join in with our From the Feedback features, all you have to do is click on the blue question link at the bottom of each article, or hit the My Feedback button at the top of every page.
Each contribution may be subjected to a rigorous process of editing for language, taste and imparted wisdom. The opinions expressed in From the Feedback do not necessarily reflect those of the management, staff or investors of madfor sport.com. Instead, and much more importantly, they reflect your views.
Editor's plea. If you write to us and you want to see your thoughts in print, then please include your full name and where you come from on your e-mail. Anonymous contributions will not be published.ss
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